I honestly don’t know where the markets are heading next. I cannot predict where and when the top and bottom shall take place. But I learnt it hard way, what I should do "stay" or "quit" when price is traveling beyond my reference levels.

Monday, May 21, 2012

Draw down, Whipsaws and my 3 months trading!

I have something to share from the recent trading experience in this volatile market enviroment.

Let me first put down few questions related to mechanical trading.

What kind of drawdown you should be prepared to absorb to avoid getting out of your trade?

How many whipsaws you can survive to remain holding the position in a particular counter?

Is it worth to remain entering all the trades in the counter despite it sucks all your capital slowly but steadily?

I faced all these questions since Jan till early may and didn't have perfect answers though i knew them partly. Now, I beleive i have those answers and let me share here.

After turning out to be a pure mechanical trader, this is the first longer whipsaw phase I have witnessed in my trading career. After doing patch of trials and patch of real trading in 2011 based on a mechanical system, decided to load the guns fully in 2012. Started with more capital from Jan'12 and increased the trade basket size. I have settled with Crude oil and Silver and partly with Nifty. What happened then? When you expect something, it won't happen!

Let us find answers for the three questions at top, from my own experience.

Q # 1: What kind of drawdown you should be prepared to absorb to avoid getting out of your trade?

Ans: If you have a faith in your system and if you have earned money for some time, then be prepared to take any deep cut i.e. the very deep drawdown in your account. Since Jan till end April, I had 120% drawdown from my margin money. I beleive this is not the worst and i may have more draw down also in future when the volatility is going to be at its best.

Q # 2: How many whipsaws you can survive to remain holding the position of the counter?

Ans: If you are experiencing whipsaws means, markets are seeking direction. It has no signal from the market participants after a bigger move or pretends that it has no signal prior to bigger move. In a mechanical trading, it’s very hard to skip the whipsaws till you gain some knowledge and experience. Let the whipsaws run and do not count them as it’ll frustrate you. I had 21 consecutive whipsaw trades in crude oil which resulted in the drawdown I explained above. This phase was going on for three full months. The 22nd trade wiped all the loss from 21 trades and yielded extra profit of 40%. And the best part is, that profit was poured in just 3 days! 3 months of frustration was cured in just 3 days in a lightening speed. So, make it clear that whipsaws are part of the game and you don’t need to break down for the same.

Q # 3: Is it worth to remain keeping position in a particular counter despite it sucks all your capital slowly but steadily?

Ans: When crude oil was boiling my account with 21 whipsaw trades, Silver was also in competition with crude oil to beat it’s record. Silver was making its 20th whipsaw trade but I had to quit the position as I was in a position to remain in either one of the crude oil or Silver due to shortage of funds. Considering various factors, I have decided to say bye to silver and stuck with oil. When I left silver, my silver account was down by 70%. After couple of days, It had its bigger move and within a week and needless to say it has produced 120% of returns.Managed to pocket part of the profits here by entering in a mid-way.

This has become a routine with mechanical trader that he takes all losses in the whipsaw mode with the hope that “bigger move is here”! But, when he is in the kissing distance of such move, he exits the position. This was a repeating story for me in 2011 but I have made all arrangements and mentally set to avoid this situation this year.Still, I was able to sat tight only with crude oil but had to dump silver. So, it doesn’t matter how bad the whipsaws, you shouldn’t exit the position if you are following a mechanical system. Prepare youtrself in such a way!

Now, what am going to do to avoid all the above three situation as it would happen quite often month after month and year after year! That’s for sure!

Simple – I am going to trade only with 33% of my trading capital.

If you want to make money from the markets, do not fund your account with just little above the margin money. I was having the theory of keeping 100% of the margin money in reserve i.e, you trade only with 50% of your capital available. Now, I’ll make sure that I keep 2 times more than the margin money in my trading account i.e., I would utilise only 33% of my trading capital and the rest would act as the shock absorber to manage drawdown.

Note # 1: One must understand the difference between hope and trust. Hope sometimes is dangerous (thanks to shashank redemption). Do not blindly hope that after certain draw down or whipsaws, you will get windfall returns. You should have done your home work i.e, back test, paper trade or the real trading for some time which should reinforce your trust in the mechanical system you are trading. So, if you can trust your system, stay calm at such testing times but never blindly remain in hope!

Note # 2: Someone can have the doubt as “Is it worth to trade with only 33% capital?” My answer would be – It’s damn worth coz you are going to execute all the entries and not going to leave a single entry. This would make you richer than what if you would have traded with your 100% capital by missing few trades!

Note # 3: All the above are applicable only to the fellows who really can’t spend their full time in the markets but wants to make money using a mechanical system. If you are a full timer and can make more money by spotting trends and whipsaws, then skip this post :)

13 comments:

r m said...

Thanks for sharing assortZ! I was observing the whipsaws everyday and wondered how a positional trader would have coped with them, now i got the reply!
Working out the max drawdown in backtests is extremely important for trading a mechanical setup. And you have shown a practical way of coping with it when it is happening. Thanks once again!

regards.

assortZ said...

Hi Senior ( should i mention silent senior, moh? :) ),

Yes! it was a period which really tested my patience..and, as a mechanical trader i would grade myself that i have got a pass mark :)..I was able to sit tight only because of the confidence from my back test as you have pointed out rightly.

This patch actually instilled a tremendous confidence and hope this kind of testing times at initial stage of trading will shape you a lot for the bright future:)

How is climate there, boss? we envy you! it's boiling here and we don't have power for 8-10 hrs a day :)

r m said...

@assortZ

It is getting hot here, have to use ceiling fans since last one week!
Normally March onwards it gets hot here, but this season we exported the heat to Tamilnadu so that you guys go easy on opposing nuclear power plants.
:)

mo h said...

Hi assortz :) very creative post, useful & thought provoking ....

Hey R(a)M !!! :)
trying to heat up the goose of tamilnadu ?
:)

good to know you go positional too.

@assortz
On DrawDown :
as RM sez the max drawdown for the given system over a 4year backtest,
including transaction expenses with allowance for fill and slippage
can go into SweepIn FD or Flexi Deposit so that it keeps earning while can be cracked when margin needs cover on drawdown.

A good markdown psychology test you have undergone over 5months to find the answer :) wow!

2. On whipsaws :
Number whipsaws is function of strength of TrendLessNess Monster
:)

Cool that you analyzed & kept a count on how many whipsaws hatched
:)

like RM says the post gives answer to plenty of realtime doubts.
will help many silent readers indeed.

about RM being a Silent (???) Senior :
:)
Oh God! you chose to call the most vociferous noisy-ferous person to be the silent one
:)

all the best for more of 2012 profitability!!
May Oil Boil when you long, (trigger happy news will assist)
and
May it freeeeze when you short, (piling stocks may roll the barrels southwards)


take care!
regards
moh

mo h said...

rm,
agreed agreed, plz take back the heat!!
:)

A J said...

Hi assortZ,
Thanks for telling us how to hold one's nerve, both with whipsaws and with a short trade in crude

You said, "I had 120% drawdown from my margin money". Can you tell how you are calculating drawdown?

As per my understanding, lets say I have 10,000 in my trading and I can take 10X leverage, making my margin money 1,00,000. Now I start making losses and I have 88,000 as margin.

So drawdown = 12000*100/10000 = 120%

Where 12000 is decrease in margin
and 10000 is original capital.

Is the above calculation right?

Usually drawdown is calculated based on trading account.

Like if I have 10,000. I make losses, account goes to 4000. So drawdown is 6000*100/10000 = 60%

Where 6000 is loss of capital and 10000 is initial capital.

Can you please tell how you came with 120% in you case?

assortZ said...

Hi RM,

Thanks for sending the heat. But it seems every state is sending heat to us! Heat increases day by day :). Can’t imagine ceiling fans at your chilled mountain town!

Hi Moh,

Thanks!

That’s nice idea to keep the money in flexi deposit schemes... I leave them now with my trading account only and sometimes use them to do few intraday itching trades :).It’s better to switch them to other FD. Cool!

Yes, I have to thank RM for his comment. He has practically seen the phase what I have gone through am happy that someone knows the pain what I had :)

Hi AJ,

How are you doing? :)

Yes, holding the nerve turning my hairs grey :)

I meant in the same way as per your second example. I don’t avail leverage for any contract, let it be commodity or Nifty. What I have meant as margin money is the money locked for margin to trade a counter.

For eg, Rs.25000 is the margin required to trade one lot of nifty. When my whipsaws resulted in the loss of Rs.30000.00 over the period of time, I consider them as 120% draw down.

mo h said...

true, assortz,
the man from the mountains is a
Wizard of Multiple Talents,
we also can call him
Seth RMdas or
RM Karma or
RMKurma the Vishnu ...
he knows most things including the MaxPain & Drawdowns & MaxFavourables

mo h said...

Hi AJ
:)

A J said...

@assortZ
Thanks
@mo h
Hi, how are you, busy as always? :)

r m said...

Hi AJ

Enjoying your Kulfis? :)

mo h said...

@ A J

doing good, pal :)
busy this season, with extensions
:)

have great trades, AJ,
moh

A J said...

@ r m
Hi, how are you doing?
Yes, kulfi, outside hot shiva shiva, inside cold shiver shiver :D